On today’s episode of Steal the Show, we’re talking about “non-obvious” ways to provide more value to meeting planners and organizers, as well as audiences and fans.

Rohit Bhargava is the founder and Chief Trend Curator for the Non-Obvious Company and the bestselling author of six books. His latest book, for the new decade, is Non-Obvious Megatrends. He is widely considered one of the most entertaining and original keynote speakers on business trends and marketing in the world.

How You Can Steal the Show

  • The bold choice Rohit made on a SXSW panel that led to a standing ovation and more gigs.
  • The deal he made with his employer when he started getting paid speaking gigs.
  • Why you should pay attention to “Accelerating Present” if you want to make educated predictions. 
  • Why beliefs and behaviors are trends.
  • How to name a trend, book, or keynote so it’s clever, yet understandable and memorable. 
  • The secret for taking good notes at a conference or keynote.
  • How your reputation and value are much more than what you deliver on stage.
  • Rohit’s Non-Obvious tips for providing more value to meeting planners and organizers.
  • The Haystack Method for identifying and naming trends (and why it will feel familiar to Heroic Public Speaking students).
  • How to customize your speech so audience members know you understand their industry. 
  • The secret to connecting with your audience.

You can purchase Rohit’s Non-Obvious book trend series here.

Michael: Welcome to Steal the Show with Michael Port. I’m Michael Port and today’s guest is Rohit Bhargava. Now Rohit is the Founder and Chief Trend Curator of the Non-Obvious Company. Previously, he spent over 15 years leading digital and innovation strategy. For global brands at two respected marketing agencies, Leo Burnett and Ogilvy, he is dedicated to bringing more humanity back to business.

As a speaker, he’s been invited to deliver multiple TEDx talks and is taking the stage at over 500 events in 31 countries around the world, averaging 50 speeches a year. He is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of six books, including his signature Non-Obvious series. For 10 years, he has curated trends and publish them in an annual book and his new book, non-obvious mega [00:01:00] trends just released.

And guess what else? He has a drink named after him, the “Rohito” So we’re going to definitely ask about that. Let’s do it.

Okay. So we have to start with the “Rohito.” What is in a “Rohito”?

Rohit: So a “Rohito”, the recipe is very simple. It’s a Mohito with raspberry.

Michael: Oh, a Mohito with raspberry.

Rohit: Now you still do the mint. You do exactly the same as you would with a regular Mohito, but just the raspberry makes it the AR, so it makes sense.

Otherwise it would just be, you know, a self-indulgent and probably a little bit, you know, too far. But with the raspberry, it totally makes sense.

Michael: It totally makes sense. It’s an entirely different drink.

Rohit: That’s right.

Michael: I, I don’t actually drink, but I just don’t like it. I’ve tried really, really hard, but I still can’t see, I like pina coladas cause they’re like kind of, well, they know the nicer [00:02:00] milkshakes.

The “Rohito” is it can be made without alcohol. So either way.

Well Amy likes mojitos so the next time I get her one, which is usually my job, I go to the bar and get the mojito I’m going to order a “Rohito” with a straight face and just see what happens.

Rohit: I’m trying to make it a thing. So maybe you’ll be able to help me.

Michael: Oh, I’m on. I’m all over it. I’m going to make this a thing everywhere we go.

And I’m like, you don’t know what a “Rohito” is? What is wrong with you? You’re a substandard bartender. Get me someone who knows what they’re doing. That’s what I’m going to do.

Rohit: Bartender schools probably in the future.

Michael: Yeah, exactly. Look, so in all seriousness, in the introduction, I mentioned that you do about 50 speeches a year. You have taken the stage at over 500 events in 31 countries, and of course, done multiple Ted X talks. So let’s just go back to the beginning. Before you were a superstar speaker, uh, doing 50 gigs a year, when you started, did you just jump right into speaking and say, “I’m going to be a highly paid professional speaker”, or did you do [00:03:00] a, you know, free speech is a lunch and learns state type speeches? What was the beginning of your journey like?

Rohit: Yeah. My, my beginning was I was working in an ad agency and I started getting invited to be on panels and I became the guy on the panel who didn’t suck and say what everyone else said. Like my signature thing. Like everyone, you know, cause you know, badly run panels, you know everyone, well, every question is asked of every person.

So if they have such a dumb way, everybody has to answer the same question. And then you know, even if the answer really should be the same, they try to make up. Well, let me see how I can make it a little different, but it doesn’t actually add that much variety. Exactly. Yeah. And so like I started to stand out because of that.

And I remember I had this one moment when I was at South by Southwest, um, which if anybody who’s been there, you know that the vibe is a little bit different than other events. Like for example, during a panel, people will be tweeting about your panel and you’ll be checking the tweets and people will literally walk out if your [00:04:00] panel is not good.

And we were on this panel and we were getting killed because the moderator was asking questions that were not related to what the advertised topic of the panel was, and people were getting really ticked off because they were like literally 15 other panels they could’ve gone to at the same time slot.

And we were getting smoked and I, they just responded in the middle of the panel. I was like, so I’ve seen on Twitter that. People are really not feeling like we’re talking about what we should be talking about. Knight said back to the moderator, I said, so can we shift to actually talk about this? And people literally stood up and started applauding.

I mean, in the end, this was 800 people, right? I mean, it wasn’t a small room because it’s South by Southwest, and that was this moment when I realized that. Look, there’s a way on a panel to really read the audience. And I started to do that, and because of that, I got more invites to get on bigger panels, keynote panels.

Then I became a keynote speaker not charging because I had a full time job and people said, how much do you charge? And I said, well, how much do you have? Because I didn’t charge. [00:05:00] And they said, well, we have an honorarium of 1000 bucks. So then I’m like, great. It’s more than, more than, more than nothing.

Yeah. Right. Of course. Yeah. You know, at a Ogilvy or Burnett where I was at Ogilvy at that time. Yeah. And so, you know, one of the things that I know some people sometimes struggle with is, look, if you’re working full time, and then you start getting paid for speaking, like, do you have to give that money to your.

Employer. Um, and for me, the way I figured it out is I went to Ogilvy and I said, look, I’m getting these invites. And at that point it was like, here’s 1000 bucks. And for anybody at a large company, it’s like the paperwork involved and trying to figure out what to do with 1000 bucks. It’s not worth it. So, you know, because of that, they said, yeah, you can just do that on your own time.

And as I started getting on bigger stages, I said, look, I’d like to keep doing this and I’ll take a day off every time I. Have a gig. So I’ll basically be doing it on my time, not on your time. And they said that was okay. And that worked until, it didn’t until you had no more days left to take off. Well, you know, honestly, uh, it actually worked until [00:06:00] I started getting higher profile.

Gigs, which meant they were booking further in advance. And so, you know, you booked three months in advance and then you have a big pitch that you’re working on and the pitcher’s coming up and people are like, wait, you have a day off, but you need to cancel it. We have a pitch and you can’t cancel. And you said yes to a gig through three months earlier.

Right? Sure. Um, so then I started running into a, Hey, are you focused on the Rohit show or are you. You know, here working for us road show all the way with the row row heater in my hand and I’ll see you later. I’m out of here. That was one of the reasons why I left. It was just, I mean, it wasn’t fair to them.

It wasn’t, you know, it was holding me back. So it’s better for everybody. Yeah, that’s good. Well, so listen, you have accomplished, uh, many, many things over the years, and of course your primary focus, at least from what I understand, has been on the non-obvious series. Uh, over the last decade, and, uh, you’ve published, you know, annual trend reports, uh, you know, uh, [00:07:00] for example, you know, your release, non-obvious mega trends, how to see what others miss, predict trends, and win the future.

So I want to first talk about this idea of predictions before we get into, um. Predicting what the future of speaking might look like. And I, I didn’t ask you to prepare this, but I imagine, you know, you’re out in the world, uh, you know, and you are always looking for what the trends are. So I’m very, very interested in what you think some of the trends might be going forward in the industry.

But before we get to that, you know, look, when I hear, say, um. Suppose it finance experts predicting, uh, you know, market trends, you know, 9.999, nine, nine, nine times out of 10, if they’re correct, they just got lucky. You know, it’s very, very hard to actually tell. Like you say, well, the market’s going to crash in two weeks.

[00:08:00] Well, if it does, it’s in large part because you got lucky. You might not actually have, have known it. And so how do you handle, um. You know, dealing with making predictions about the future, which is unknown, uh, and doing it in a way that is in integrity for you and credible for your audience. The biggest thing I think is that I focus on what I call the accelerating present.

And so a lot of times when I say to you, I’m predicting the future, that seems unbelievable because nobody knows the future. But if I said to you, I’m paying so much attention to what’s happening right now that I can extrapolate what’s going to matter in the future. Well now it seems a little more believable that someone could do that.

Now it’s just a question of, well, what are you paying attention to? Are you paying attention to the sorts of things that give you those early indications as to what’s going to be most popular or what’s [00:09:00] going to start shifting the way that we think about the world or the way that we see our business?

And that’s really the method behind what I do. Out there reading hundreds of stories every week I’m putting together this email newsletter where I curate the best stories, the most underappreciated stories of the week, and there’s so much input and there’s a process for sifting through all of that input to say, this story over here and this conversation I’ve had over here and this TV show that I just saw released.

They all relate to this one bigger theme, and. The prediction is that theme is going to be so much more mainstream and that it’s going to ultimately change how we do business change, how we hire, change the future of whatever industry. I mean, that’s what the prediction is. So, you know, we, we see, you know, hundreds if not thousands at this point, have speakers come through HBS HQ each year and very often, uh.

Speakers will attempt to make predictions in their work. Now, they may not [00:10:00] be focused on it in the way that you do, but they may attempt to do it, uh, as it relates to their industry in some way. So what do you think people miss, uh, when it comes to predicting trends, how, you know, how do they miss the Mark?

What are they doing wrong? Often when they’re attempting to make predictions about the future? The biggest thing that I see people do. Wrong or, or, or kind of get wrong is this idea that a thing is the trend. So a lot of times people will see like a platform, like tech talk and they’ll say the biggest trend is going to be tick-tock, or they’ll see a platform called like, uh, our technology, like three D printing.

And they’ll say, three D printing is a trend. And what I encourage people to do much more than that, is say, look, these are just platforms. They’re just products. They’re just services. They’re just things. But what they indicate is a bigger. Trend a bigger idea. So three D printing is not the trend, but [00:11:00] the makers movement back when that was starting to take off could be the trend, which is people like to make their own stuff and they really invest time and effort to become good at it.

That could be a trend because it’s more human. It’s based on our behavior. It indicates a belief. It’s not just a technology that exists now. That’s very, very interesting. What you’re essentially, what I’m hearing. Is you’re looking to put those specific examples into a broader context. And, and, and, and when people miss the markets, maybe because they’re looking at, uh, a product that, uh, is a response to the change in context.

But if you don’t understand the context, understanding the product is not necessarily going to help you. Yeah, well, it’ll, it’ll give you one piece of it, right? But it’ll be myopic. It’ll only be one element of it. And if you, if you sit there and say, well, three D printing is a trend, you may end up focusing too much time and effort and energy on this one thing [00:12:00] that may or may not be popular in the future.

And that’s what happens all the time. And so people say, well, we predicted this trend, but now nobody’s using kick dock anymore, for example. And so we were wrong. Well, you weren’t wrong. You were just too narrow minded. Uh, and I think that when we broaden our thinking, then we start to come up with things that are actually starting to change the way we think.

And, and, you know, that’s one thing that people get wrong. And look, the other thing is a lot of trend predictions are intentionally. Narrow-minded because they’re biased, right? I mean, I own a company that makes drones and I say that 2020s a year of drones. It makes sense, right? I’m selling drones. Like, what else am I, the trend predictions you read, like that’s what they are.

There’s somebody saying the, it’s a year of content marketing. Why? Because I sell a content marketing course. So this is very important, you know, for, uh, for anybody that is doing any type of predicting, I think to share. Uh, their potential conflict of interest and biases up front so the [00:13:00] audience knows what they are, so they’re are at least recognized and articulated.

Uh, but generally if you’re watching the media, uh, the people who are making the predictions usually have some sort of conflict of interest or bias. Uh, and that’s obviously problematic. Uh, I, I wanna I wanna uh, Joe, I’m going to go back to something you said just briefly, cause I think it’s important. I have a question related to it.

You use the phrase maker’s movement. When you were referring to the trend, uh, that, uh, essentially gave rise to a platform like tock and in past non obvious reports, you’ve named trends such as a virtual empathy and retro trust. And to me, naming, uh, an idea or renaming an idea, or in your case, naming a trend is one of the key differences or differentiators between, [00:14:00] uh, experts who have a knowledge of best practices.

You know, what works today and visionary thinkers who are looking at, uh, what’s going to work in the future. And so I’m wondering how speakers can learn to name ideas and name trends to make them part of their IP so they essentially become proprietary. Yeah, I, I do actually spend a lot of time thinking about that and I ultimately, it comes down to branding and, and look, I’m a marketing and branding guy.

That’s what I’ve done for my whole career. In fact, I remember. Really frustrating my wife intentionally because when we were going through names for our kids, I used to say, let’s talk about branding and branding. You’re naming a kid, and I’m like, look, it’s the same thing. Like you’re thinking of a name that you know, stand out and it’s going to resonate for people.

Right, exactly. Right. Right. Yeah. And you know, like if you name your kid Apple. [00:15:00] That’s a very strong choice. It’s a branding. Well, it is. And you know, I feel bad for the parents that 20 years ago went with Alexa. Right? Cause now that name is become something different. Right? And you can’t predict that. So, yeah.

I mean, it’s, so, naming has been really, really, uh, important for these concepts because it helps them to stand out. And so there’s a couple of things that I look for specifically when it comes to naming. Um. And you know, one is like, is it relatively simple to say and do? Does it make sense to people without too much explanation?

So I remember years ago, this was one of the early trends that we put out there and an early report, and I called it . And if I said to you shopped immunization, I mean, you know what a shop is and you know what optimization is. And so you could probably soar to guests, like what that trend might be about.

It’s going to be about retail, optimizing the retail experience, making it faster for people maybe to buy stuff. And that’s what it was. Right? [00:16:00] So. A big part of trying to come up with these names is, is it going to be meaningful for people, uh, and help that idea to stick in their head? Yeah. I think it’s really, really important.

Uh, you know, uh, like, like the, the title of my first book book yourself solid is a good example of this, I think, because a lot of people have written books on how to get clients, but. But what I did is I took a phrase that was already used. It existed in the vernacular. People say, Oh, man, I’m so booked solid, or I need to get both sides.

I want to book myself solid, you know? And uh, and I thought, well, how can I use that same, uh, phrase, uh, in a way that’s more proprietary and to design a system, uh, that, uh, that encompanies encompasses that whole concept and as a result. I then owned that term because the book did well enough in the concept spread.

And so just [00:17:00] naming or renaming something can be innovative in and of itself, because you could write a book called how to get clients, which anybody could write or you could write book yourself solid and you can own that. Yeah, and that’s a great, that’s a great example because like, you really have owned it, right?

I mean, you’ve turned it into a brand in itself. And I think that when you name something really well, that is the opportunity it presents. And so one of the things I talk about is, is sort of three main ways that I use to name things. Um, and one of them is, is this idea of a mashup, right? So my second book was called omics, and it was all about why we do business with people that we like.

And there’s a reason, and I talk about this in the book, why I didn’t call it trust and omics, right? I mean, that’s much more clunky. It doesn’t flow. Whereas like economics is close to economics, right? As he has the same letters, it makes the same sound. So when you do something like that, that works when you do something with alliteration.

So one of the trends that I wrote about, we call it muddled masculinity, they both [00:18:00] start with an M Chris Coca-Cola, like these are all memorable brands because of that. Um, and then the last technique that I talked about was a twist. So one of the things that I wrote about was why we like things that are flawed because they’re more human.

And the trend around that was something I called an perfection and unperfect really worked, uh, because that’s not actually a word. The word is imperfection, right? But that’s the joke. Like you made up a word to demonstrate flawed action. Right? And that one really took off as well. So. Those are just the, I mean, there’s many ways to do it.

And when you’re thinking about, like, for example, naming a keynote, like when you do something like that doesn’t necessarily have to be a book, although a lot of times it is a book. It helps you have that idea stand out. Yeah. When we teach our students, uh, titling, uh, for speeches, it’s the same process we use when we teach titling for books.

Uh, very, very similar, uh, process. Uh, and of course. [00:19:00] Most speakers are also writing books. So it makes sense that there should be some correlation between the book title and the speech title, uh, just from a branding perspective that, but I, I just want to clarify something you said. Number one was mash-ups, uh, like, like an omics.

Uh, and then you said twist was number three, like unperfected, but I missed a second. What did I miss? What was the alliteration? Sorry. Got it. Muddled masculinity or Coca-Cola. You know, using that double letter format. Good. Thank you. Okay, so this is, this is what my problem in school, cause I’m dyslexic, so I was actually writing notes.

So if I write the notes, by the time I’m writing, by the time I’m finished writing the note, the person who is speaking is already onto something else. So when I was a kid, I had to borrow notes from people. So I had to learn how to be the kid that was not the kid that. Just borrowed notes cause he wasn’t paying attention.

I had to be the kid that, you know, you’d be willing to give your notes to. So I think at a young age, I learned very early how to get people to want to help. [00:20:00] And I think that’s, that’s really important because if, one of the things I actually talk about in a, in one of the. Segments of a keynote is how to take notes.

And one of the biggest tips they give to people, and I mean, this is probably perfectly, uh, obvious to you or I, but a lot of people who don’t go to a lot of events never think of this. I say, look, if you have a speaker who is saying, here are the three things you should remember, and they go through the three things or the five things or whatever, what always happens.

Yeah. You start to write it down and then they switch the slide and you miss it, right? Yeah. But if you take your phone out and you take a photo of that slide, you’ll never miss it. And so your phone is your secret note-taking device. And that’s what I encourage people to do. I love it. You know, it’s great.

You, you’re actually helping the audience, uh, overcome, uh. Uh, mistakes that speakers are making by not allowing people to have the time to write things down. And then my job over here is to hit it from the opposite end with the speakers to try to get them to actually [00:21:00] use repetition so people don’t miss, you know, uh, the, you know, the different things that, uh, they’re trying to share.

So we’re getting them from both sides. No, that’s great. And you’ll love, I mean this, the speaking technique of this, which really works, as soon as you encourage people to take photos of, of slides, guess what they do immediately? They take their phone out and they take a photo of the slide that you’re on, which of course is going to have all of your details and be branded so that when they take a photo of that slide and they choose to share it on social media, that brings everything right back to you.

Well played very well played. So, um, let’s talk a little bit about, uh, publishing because you know a lot about publishing, given that you’ve been publishing books, uh, by thought leaders for the last a decade now, or is it four years now? Four years? It feels like a long, much longer than that. You’ve took a lot of books in four years with a lot of very interesting people.

Uh, so well [00:22:00] done. You are again. Um, so you’ve written a lot about trends in publishing, right? And of course, publishing has been changing so much over the last, uh, number of years. Um, and you specify that publishing is not dead at all. It’s just simply changing. And one huge area of growth, of course, is audio books.

Uh, and we’ve started to see some clever adaptations, uh, that I think can create opportunities for speakers. You know, for instance, storytelling from the stage, you know, like you see at the moth is now being released. Uh, on audible as many memoirs. Then. Then our friend, our mutual friend, Phil Jones, released an audible original, a sales workshop.

So how can speakers and thought leaders take advantage of trends in publishing, uh, that, you know, we’re maybe just beginning to see or we haven’t even seen yet. I think the examples you shared are, are a great, uh. A great way of starting to think about it because what you, we know, we all know [00:23:00] is that there’s this huge distribution platform of Amazon that’s out there and starting to think about how to productize the things that we do.

Is a big focus for a lot of people. I mean, there’s entire courses and you probably have a course about that too, like productizing your, um, your offering, right. Beyond just the speech. Because for many people, I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s these two business models with speaking, right? One is just, you give the talk and you get paid.

The other is that you give the talk for minimal or no money and you do the back of the room. Sorts of sales that allow you to get compensated in a different way. Then there’s big believers on both sides for, you know, the value of either one. But I think that for me, the, the future of publishing is that these, and this is, this is tough, I think in some ways because the distribution platforms are more monopolized, um, in terms of, you have Amazon.

You have maybe a couple. There was like some mergers I think [00:24:00] recently, but in the podcasting world, um, that make them make their even smaller kind of large platforms. And so. The question is not so much what am I going to create and then how do I get it out everywhere, which is what it used to be. It’s what do I create and where’s the major platform where I’m just going to focus all my efforts?

Like am I just gonna release the audible? Am I just going to release on Kindle because 90 X percent of my sales are going to come just from that one platform? Yeah. So as a person who’s working in publishing, I’m a little worried because there’s a lot of power that goes into that. And actually it’s affected my personal life.

I have to say too, because in this last holiday season, I will actively look for stuff on Amazon and then go and find it somewhere else, just so I don’t buy stuff from Amazon. Oh really? Want to. And usually you can find free shipping and you find the same price in other places. And so I will actively shop for anything I can on

Another site. non-Amazon interesting. Demonstrates you’re definitely not a lazy person. [00:25:00] No, it’s a, it’s, it is a little extra work know, but at the same time, I mean, I see the downside of the control that Amazon has, right? I mean, for example, yeah. Biggest issues that publishers and any author has, and you’ll probably be familiar with this too, as a fellow author.

Because Amazon was giving away the buy button on the Amazon pages to any third party seller. So if somebody goes to the Amazon page for book yourself solid, they will see your book for sale by some third party that doesn’t pay you any royalties. And they might just buy it from there cause they think it’s just Amazon.

Yeah. You know, um, interestingly enough, the third edition of book yourself solid was released, uh, just a couple of years ago. And, uh, and Amazon, uh, was the company that bought the rights to the audio book. Uh, you know, uh, and so they did the audio book. And it was interesting because, uh, well, you know, audible through Amazon, but they required.

That I read word for word [00:26:00] perfect. Exactly. As written. That’s what they wanted. And it was interesting to me because, you know, they’re doing these original series now and they are doing some really interesting creative projects. And I was wondering, I had no way of actually knowing this, but there was thinking, I was like, I wonder if

For most of the books that they’re doing, they’re buying so many of these books so they can control how they’re being read, so that when they do their original content, they’re actually creating much more new, unique, and original types of audio books, uh, so that they actually start to corner the market, just like we’re seeing now.

Netflix, uh, their original content is outperforming the other content on Netflix. They just released that report. It was really pretty. It was the first time. It was pretty amazing. So I, you know, I have no data to back that up, but, um, there’s wondering about it because now, you know, Andrew Davis and I are writing a book called the referrable speech, and, uh, it’s going to come out at the end of the summer [00:27:00] and we’re S we’re publishing with page two.

We’re going to do it on our own, essentially, and we’ll do our own audio book. And, uh, I think Ron tights company may. Produce it for us, and we’re going to do some different stuff. As you might imagine, we try to make it a little bit more creative and a little bit more interesting. So do you, what’s your perspective on that?

And then secondly, um, what’s your perspective on. Doing audio books that are very different than the original book. Cause I do have mixed feelings about this myself. Uh, you know, cause sometimes the book can turn into feel a little bit more like a podcast and doesn’t have the same loses some of the structure that a book has, which is helpful to the reader.

So what’s your perspective on this big topic? I think so much of it depends on the style of book and the performer. Because if you think about, for example, like let’s go with like a celebrity memoir, right? Um, so if you had like Lilly Singh, right? And her book, if she’s doing an audio book of her [00:28:00] book, and she does it word for word, it’s probably still going to be in her voice because the book was written in her voice.

Um, whereas if you do something in, in that’s more of kind of a business or an academic book, you know, I might prefer to have. A more add lived audio version that’s more conversational versus the version that exists and works really well in print, but maybe isn’t as easy to digest in audio. So it’s, I’m not a purist in any sense.

I mean, to be honest with you, I’m not a huge audio book listener myself. Um, I prefer to read the book. Uh, and so I don’t have a huge amount of experience with audio books as a consumer of them. Uh, but I do know based on a lot of friends and colleagues and, and, and people in my network who love audio books, they don’t seem to have a deep preference for whether it goes word for word versus something that’s a little bit different.

They do, however, seem to have a deep preference for listening to the audio book read by the author as opposed to a third party narrator. I prefer it. I [00:29:00] mean, you know, unless of course the, the author really just can’t, uh, just, just, just, just can’t do it. Well, uh, but most of the time I’d rather have an author that is not, um, you know, fantastically, um, theatrical and charming.

Uh, then, uh, then a reader who sounds completely disconnected from the material, uh, you know, if you, if you get a reader, if you’re doing, you’re doing a business book or a personal development book, and the reader sat and the reader you hire sounds like the reader who does the trailers for action movies.

It’s just going to sound odd, you know, can tell when certain, uh, narrators have that sort of. Over the, over the top announcer voice. Oh yeah. Well, you know, it’s interesting. So, you know, I used to do voiceovers. That was my bread and butter when I was an actor, and I just got really lucky because I came in at, at, at a time when the [00:30:00] regular guy sound was getting popular, because previously before that, you know, the big announcer voice was always the tag at the end of the commercial.

Oh, you know, golden road, road on road, a big thing. And then there was like, listen, they just want a regular guy who says, look at pizza hut, we’ve got so many pieces. You can do something different every day. So many pizzas. One great deal. They just wanted you to sound like you were a regular happy guy with a big smile on your face and a they, and you know.

And so timing is a, is often a really big factor in, in any type of. Artistic field. And so I just lucked out. Got the first one, and then, you know, from, you know, I kept working consistently in voiceovers for a long time, but the trends really do change. Uh, and, uh, and you know, if you do, you know, pay attention to those trends.

You know, you can, you can see where you fit in and you know, potentially stay at the forefront. So the next question is about trends in the speaking industry. And I’m just gonna preface this for the listeners that I don’t expect that you’re studying [00:31:00] all the trends in the speaking industry, cause you may have.

Other or better things to do, but, and I also imagine that because you do so much work around a trend, a prediction, people probably ask you all sorts of things, like, what’s the, what is the trend in coffee tables for next? You know, like, I don’t know, man. I don’t. I put my coffee on the table. That’s about it.

That’s all I know. So, um, so I’m not expecting that you’ve been studying and researching this, but you are at so many events and, um, you must curate new ideas while you’re at conferences or watching other speakers, talking to audience members, working with meeting planners, et cetera. So what do you, what kind of trends are you seeing in speaking, you know, for 2020 and beyond?

So I think there are some things that are new and there are some things that maybe are. Sort of consistently important, but that sometimes we undervalue in as being professional speakers in the industry. So yeah, the things that we sometimes undervalue are [00:32:00] the importance of. Our behavior. Right. I mean, not being a diva and not being an asshole, being easy to work with, being flexible, knowing that, yeah.

Your writer says that there can’t be a podium on the stage, but sometimes these poor guys, if like duct tape this thing down and there’s no possible way, like, yeah. Even though your contracts that they should part of it, is that right? Uh, which I don’t think it’s new. It’s just like, you know, your reputation is, is not just based on being great on stage.

Your reputation is how do you work with people and argue, easy to work with. And I know a handful of speakers who have great content, but they don’t really get booked all that much, and I can’t really refer them because they’re just not good to work with. And people know. So, yeah. So those, those are in the, in the arts.

Those are the folks who get a lot of first gigs. Yup. Because either enacting their great auditioners or uh, you know, on the front end they look really, really good, but they don’t get hired again. Correct. And then [00:33:00] there are people who, they don’t get a lot of first gigs. They get a lot of second, third, fourth, fifth gigs, and they work consistently forever.

Yeah. And that is a, I mean, any of us would aspire to be a speaker like that, right? I mean, it’s, word of mouth is huge in, in this industry. People talk, they see you, they see the video. Um, and they see how you are to work with. So I mean, that is a consistent thing. Uh, some of the things that I think are, are maybe a little bit newer that I’m finding, at least with speaking, is, uh, this perception of value as opposed to a talk or product.

So. Let’s say you are a great to work with and you have a great one hour talk, right? And they are paying you really well to deliver that one hour talk. A lot of speakers will say, look, that’s, you know, that’s my job. And I did it. Like, I don’t need to show up at the networking. I don’t need to stick around.

I don’t, you look a, I’m not an asshole. I said hi to everybody. I shook everyone’s hand. I stuck around for 20 minutes after my talk, like I did my thing, I’m done. Uh, but then there’s the value. Perception of saying to, [00:34:00] uh, an event. For example, look, I’m coming for the morning. If you want me to do a bonus workshop in the afternoon, I’m there anyway.

I’ll do that workshop. I’ll stick around, I’ll do a book signing. Hey, you have a perception of the night before. If I can get in in time, I’ll come and hang out and have beers with you until. A 2:00 AM right, because we’re all hanging out and part of the event is all getting to know each other and being part of the event, right?

Some speakers do that, some don’t. And what I’m starting to see more and more is that the people who are booking those speakers, they’re looking at how much value is the speaker going to bring to the event, not just in terms of what they do on stage, but the workshops that they’re going to do. Are they going to help me pre promote it?

Are they going to create a video ahead of time? Getting my audience excited about even showing up. Right? I mean, all of these things are the intangible. Other things that aren’t necessarily listed in our contract. Sometimes they are right. You have to do the video, you have to do this. You have to be that.

But you know, a lot of times they’re not. They’re just things that we. He can either choose to show up and do, because when we commit to the event where 1000% in or we don’t, we say, [00:35:00] look, I don’t really do that. I don’t give you, I don’t give people my slides after my talk. That’s just not how I do it. I do my talk.

I deliver a great, I’m friendly and nice there. And, uh. Then you sit in the car and take me to the airport. Yeah. I, uh, I, you know what I would say at this moment, I’d say preach, you know, but if you saw me now I’m putting my palms up in the air going, preach. Cause you know, you hit the nail on the head for sure.

So what are some of the new trends that you’re seeing out there? So I would say in speaking or just in general? Yeah, I mean, I think so one of the things is, uh, the reason that people go to an event in the first place. No, which is and has always been a sort of easy to predict, right? I mean, if you have an annual conference, you’re there for education.

Sometimes you’re there because you’re trying to sell something. Um, but I think that more and more because of, uh, a how. Infrequently people get to go. Um, depending on how the economy is, I mean, for some [00:36:00] people, like we, it’s easy for us to forget. I mean, you do a ton of events. I do a ton of events. It’s easy for me to forget that that one event that I’m speaking out of the 50 that I’m going to, maybe the only event that that audience member goes to all year.

So that’s their one contests. You know, that’s a big, that’s a really important point. It’s not an everyday film for them. This is a really unique and special, so you know, a, they want high value, but B, they actually need a little bit of guidance on how to get the most out of the event in the first place.

Because a lot of times what’ll happen is people will come with two or three other colleagues. They’ll sit at the same table with their colleagues, they’ll go to dinner with their colleagues, and they won’t really be . That many people, except for a couple of conversations with people who have booths and that’s it.

And that’s a missed opportunity. And so a lot of times what I, what I kind of talk about with two people, and look what I’m preaching in my talk, like the topic of my talk is how to be a non-obvious thinker. I mean, I talk about trends, right? But really what I’m saying is think differently. Like [00:37:00] be open-minded.

Uh, embracing new ideas. And a big part of that is telling people to talk to somebody other than the people they work with. Uh, and so you have to remind them. And when you give people, and this is actually, I know there’s a kind of debate among people in, in, uh, in speaking circles about whether to be

Opening keynote speaker, a closing, and we, I remember we had a conversation about this in the Facebook group. I far prefer to be an opening keynote speaker as opposed to a closing keynote because I feel like I set the tone and one of the reasons why I prefer being the opening is cause I can give people permission in that moment to let loose a little bit and make better connections throughout the rest of the event.

Yeah. You know, it’s very interesting. Um, the reason that people go to the event in the first place is a really important question to consider, uh, in addition to what you’re suggesting, uh, about the importance of it for them and that they often may need help. Um. Navigating, uh, that type of experience so that they get the best experience [00:38:00] possible.

But also because if we understand why people are going to these events in the first place, we’re going to deliver better content and better experiences. And so if we know, if we believe that the people we’re speaking to or a particular audience is really going because they want the experience of being in a communal learning environment where they want to connect with a lot of people, well, that’s going to influence how we design the experience for them.

Versus an audience that we believe is going, because they’re really there for the very nitty gritty, tactical, uh, support. Uh, those are two slightly different, uh, reasons to go to a conference or actually maybe even vastly different reasons to go to a conference. And there might be some overlap, but, uh, but if you can get a sense of what’s the majority, what is the reason that the majority of.

My audience members are in fact, going to this event or these types of events. It will help you in the design of the speech itself, both from a content perspective [00:39:00] and from an experience perspective. Yeah. And you know, with what’s, what’s interesting about that is one of the things that, that I, I realized over time is that that person who got to go to the event, uh, got to go because two or three other people didn’t.

A lot of times. Oh, what do you mean? What do you mean by that? So, you know, there’s four people who might want to go to an event, but a company can’t afford this. And so you know that one person who went part of their responsibilities to report back to the other people who didn’t get to go right. That’s what we do here.

goes, I have my team go to the, you know, each individual gets to choose where they want to go and do their ongoing training during the year. So, you know, of course, our designer will go to, you know, an experience design conference of some kind, and then she’ll come back and she will then do a whole presentation for the rest of the team on what she learned and how the things she learned would be relevant to them in the work that they do.

[00:40:00] Yeah. And so here’s what I do, right? So that person, like imagine from their perspective, right? If they’re going to sit through probably six sessions in one day, and then they have to compile all of that and figure out like, well, who said what? So that trick that I told you before of like take a photo of the slide, one of the ways that I introduced that, as I say, look, I know you need to report back to whomever.

You need to report back to, so I’m going to make your reporting back easy. Take a photo of this one slide. These are all the notes that you need to bring backs and say, this is what the guy talked about. Now you can just sit back and you can listen to the talk. You can take notes if you want to, but at least we’re all on the same page that you’ve got the notes that you need to take back to your team.

You’re good to go. Nice. Very, very nice. Um, you know, you, um, you have a page on your website that’s just for meeting planners where you answer their frequently asked questions. And so you mentioned that you partner with event teams to make their events successful. So what does that look like? And of course, you know, why do you do this?

Uh, I think, I mean, it really comes down to that, that question of [00:41:00] value, right? So for some of them, uh, a big success factor of them. For example, if it’s an association, people don’t have to go, right? They choose to go. And so a big success factor for them is how many of their members will actually. Register and come to the event.

So if I can do things through social media, through videos, through content, like blog posts, appearing in a podcast interview to help them drive more excitement about the event, people then register. Yeah. I mean, that’s, yeah. I think, um, and I want to hear some more from your, I just want to mention that I think that’s one of the most, it may not seem like a trend to somebody who, uh, is really focused on this, but.

You know, if you’ve been in this business for a, I feel like an old man saying, as long as I have, you know, if you’ve been around for a while, you would see that the amount of support that speakers are, that you know, that certain speakers are offering a meeting planners and, uh, and event [00:42:00] designers, directors, et cetera.

Uh, in, in marketing the event and planning the event in, uh, in delivering the event, uh, all of the before, during, and after work is become much more comprehensive. Uh, and I, I don’t think it was like that 15, 20 years ago. You really. It felt more like a hired, uh, hand who showed up, did your thing, and then left.

But I think that over time, that is one of the things that has changed the most and the people that I see who are best, uh, the most appreciated and most respected by the meeting planners are the ones who are doing exactly what you are doing. W well, I, I mean, I, I think, uh, the, the word does get out there that you’re willing to help them on the things that matter most to them.

Right? I mean, another example is I’ve helped multiple events find sponsors, and I say to them that, look, if we can work together and get a sponsor, [00:43:00] I will be able to a, provide books at a, at a discounted cost. And now you have a book sponsor. And not only that, but they can do a book signing at their booth.

So now you give them additional value. We can do it. Custom dinner, if I’m coming in the night before, we can do an exclusive VIP dinner and they can invite just their prospects from the event that seem the most valuable, and I’ll show up and we’ll have like this exclusive VIP get together thing. So there’s a lot of like different things that I can do under my control that don’t actually cost me money, uh, but benefit me in the sense that a, maybe they’ll find more budget to be able to cover.

Books and B, they’ll look at all of these things I did and say, wow. He really showed up and was a partner and helped us make all of these things that made our events successful. So we got to work with him again. Yeah, and what I hear here is that you are, you are using your particular set of skills and applying them in a way that’s helpful.

[00:44:00] For them. So, yeah. You know, I’ve been around for a while, so I have, you know, pretty good sense of how to market these kinds of events. But, you know, I’m not, I’m not a marketer like you are, and I don’t have that, uh, you know, extensive background in the kind of marketing that you did. So, uh, I might not say to the conference, you know, host, listen, let me help you, uh, market this event.

But what I’ll do is say, listen. Um, who are you still trying to get to say yes to, you know, whatever it is that you are trying to put together for this conference, either sponsors or other speakers, et cetera. Um, because let me help you work on your pitches and presentations to them. So I tried to take the area that they already see me.

Uh, having a level of mastery in and finding ways to bring that to them to help them in their pursuit of a successful event. And each one of us can leverage whatever it is that we, um, have, uh, expertise or mastery in, [00:45:00] uh, and to help them make the event better. So it’s not like. You know, you have to help them market the event.

If you’re not a marketer or you know, you have to help them with their design choices. If you’re not a designer, you just take, what do you know well, and how can you apply that to their actual experience to make it better for them, not just for the audience. Yeah, that is a, I mean, that’s a great way to think about just doing business in general, right?

I mean, the more serving you are of of the audience that you’re trying to try to deliver something for, instead of just, this is my product, take it or leave it, the better you’re going to do. Yeah. You know, one of the things that, um, that you, uh, you do is, is something that you call the haystack method, uh, where you group similar trends together.

At least that’s my understanding of it based on my research. Uh, and it involves multicolored note cards or sticky notes, much like, uh, our students use at HPS to source stories and organizers. Content in their speeches [00:46:00] and more so I’d love to know more about the haystack method, how it works, and then how speakers could use it in their content development, if possible.

And practical. Yeah. The haystack method is, is kind of based on a twist on the cliche of finding a needle in a haystack. And the reason I called it the haystack method is because I believe. That if you spend enough time gathering ideas, which is the, Hey, then you can figure out what the trend is, the needle, and stick it in the middle of yourself so you don’t have to search for something.

They may or may not be there. You can decide where to put the needle yourself, which is more empowering. I think that’s why it’s called the haystack method and you’re so glad you say, hold on, I just have to take a little pause here and say, you are so good at naming. Well, thank you. It’s got in the background that I had.

Right. And reapply. Yeah, right there. So good. I mean, that’s just great. The haystack method. And then when you say, well, the haystack method, and it’s like, you know, when you find a needle in a haystack, and I’m like, of course, do you know, it’s just [00:47:00] so good. So well done. Thank you. So, you know, it is highly visual and so people are super surprised that I actually print stories out, move them around in physical paper, you know, I’m not doing everything digitally.

So there is that level of like. Oh wait, you’re actually like doing this physically? Like that’s kind of interesting. And then you’re right there that the method is really inspired by, I mean, I started my, uh, my career in education, uh, being a writer and in fact wanting to be a screenwriter and a playwright.

And so this idea of like storyboarding with. Uh, it wasn’t posted notes then. It was just kind of like note cards moving around. Right? Uh, but the idea of storyboarding and figuring out what is my story going to be like? That is a fundamental element of how I develop each one of these mega trends. Because what I’m doing is finding different stories that relate to a similar theme and I’m grouping them together.

And it’s the same way that I craft a, uh, a keynote talk, right? So I’m totally revamping my talk. Uh, that I typically do right now because it’s the new mega [00:48:00] trends, and so I have an opportunity to really go back and transform the way that I’ve been doing this for the last several years, and I have a couple of big events where I’m going to really launch that.

So a couple of smaller events where all this pilot it just to make sure the jokes work and everything’s good. Then, you know, the big event is South by Southwest. I have a huge stage there, you know, 8,000 people. So that’s where it’s going to be going out. Yeah. No doubt. I just want to mention one thing that may seem like a slight non-sequitur, but I think it will be helpful for the audience because you’re, you know, you talked about visuals and how much you use visuals.

So one of the things that, um, that we’ve identified that makes a speech referrable, uh, are, are good contextual models. Because if you have a contextual model. That helps easily transfer an idea to a group of people. Uh, then it’s a lot easier often for them to consume it and then share it. And if you want your speech to be referrable, you want your audience members to be able to [00:49:00] go back to, uh, other people and say, Oh my God.

So I just saw the speaker and she was talking about this concept. Excellent. Let me see if I can draw it for you. Cause she really, she had this way of drawing it. So like, you know, Simon Sinek has the. Golden, you know, circle thing. It’s a couple of circles with the words what, why and how. I mean, it’s so simple, but anybody can draw it and try to explain it and pass on the big idea of the speech.

And so if you are. Um, if you are trying to, if you’re having sales conversations, uh, with meeting planners and you want them to understand your ideas, just talking through them on the phone or even on a web conferencing, uh, it might not do the trick because if you start doing your speech, it’s not going to have the same kind of impact as it would when you’re actually on the stage and it ends up not working.

And you sound like you’re giving a speech, which is not what they’re interested in. Uh, in talking about, uh, but what [00:50:00] we’ve been doing, uh, is using a desktop camera. We use an IP and video, like I Pivo, I’m not exactly sure why it’s named that. I think they probably should’ve called you, uh, to name it. Uh, no offense to the IP real people, but I can never remember the name.

I had to look it up just now while I was. Trying to remember what it was. Uh, but it’s a, it’s this, you know, device that sits on your desk and it looks down so it sees the document that is on your desk. And, and if you’re using a, a web conferencing platform, they can see you and they can see the document.

So you can actually draw your contextual model in the sales conversation to show them how one of your ideas work, or how it would apply to a problem that they’re trying to solve. And it just. Blows them away. Uh, it’s one of those things that it makes their whole sales conversation so much easier, so much quicker.

Uh, and, uh, often, you know, there, there isn’t a massive difference between the intermediate and the expert in terms of [00:51:00] how much knowledge they have. Often the big difference between the intermediate and the expert is how the expert can organize that information for consumption, uh, to, uh, you know, the people in the room.

And when they see you doing those visual illustrations, you don’t have to be an artist for this. We’re just talking about basic shapes and just bringing it pouring into life. I mean, I remember one time it was at the same event and one of the other speakers was Dan roam, who I’m the guy who wrote the, Oh yeah, of course.

And his presentation style. Which if you’ve seen it as is like that, he’s literally got like this overhead projector sort of thing that they used to use back in school when I was in school and taught the concepts and bring all these things to life and you’ll do it in real time. And it’s such a cool way of doing it.

I mean, I really. I loved it because it worked for him. It was one of those ideas where like, you see it and you’re like, Oh, I could totally not do that, but that works so well for him, you know? That’s opposed to which is the other type of, yeah, yeah, [00:52:00] sure, sure. Exactly. Yeah, exactly right. That’s fantastic. So, uh, the haystack method, does that help?

He’s like, method help you when you’re trying. To customize speeches for audiences, you know, for example, uh, in, not in, in, um, in non obvious mega trends. Uh, you wrote that you had an invitation to speak at an event for the paint industry. Uh, so I’m wondering what your process is for making sure that. Your speech is relevant.

This is a, this is kind of where a little bit of the experience plays in, right? Cause I’ve done so many talks to so many different audiences, right? Like I’ve done jewelers, I’ve done, you know, uh, financial analysts, I’ve, you know, all sorts of them. And so you start to figure out like, what are the hot.

Buttons for what they will look at to say, Oh, this person gets us like he understands us and therefore his stuff is relevant. Or her [00:53:00] stuff is relevant, right? So for example, if I go into a group of credit unions, right? People who work at credit unions, I know that they don’t call their customers customers.

They call them members. And because I did my research. And so as I uncover that, I know that if I stand up in front of them and say, Hey, you can do this for your customers, immediately they’re going to think in their head, Oh, this guy doesn’t know anything about credit unions. Whereas if I come in and say, if you do this for your members, there’ll be like, wow, he’s not.

Part of the credit unions and even knows that we have members, like this guy’s done some research, like he’s actually paying attention to what we care about, right? Same thing with the paint industry. Uh, people in the paint industry don’t sell paint to consumers. Generally, this was an event for people who sell paint to contractors and people in the industry.

So it’s B to B sales. So now I have to remember that anything I’m talking about has to be through a B2B lens, not a B to C, because B2B people lose a lot of trust in speakers when they think that they’re just B to C. Yeah. You, you know, [00:54:00] w you know, uh, as you know, I retired from official keynoting and the, in the way that I used to when I started working with, uh, professional speakers because I didn’t want conflict of interest.

I think for me personally, and I can only speak for myself, uh, I think it’s very important to remove conflict of interest from your work, uh, because, or if there’s conflict of interest, at least to be, uh, you know, transparent about it. I just didn’t want any of the people that I was, I was helping. Uh, to have to compete against me for a spot.

Just don’t, that does not gonna work out well for anyone. Uh, so I, yeah, so I actually stepped away from it, but, um, but one of the things, uh, that I found, especially with B2B audiences over time, was in the early days when I would try to try to learn their world, sometimes I felt like a little bit. Almost like I was trying too hard.

And so what I started to do is I started to say, well, what if I can, what if I come here as the outsider, [00:55:00] like specifically take an outsider’s approach. So I say, listen, I don’t know. You know, my understanding is you guys do it this way, but maybe it’s a little bit different. But here’s the thing. Boom. And so then, cause sometimes the outsider can say things.

That the insider doesn’t feel comfortable saying. So, um, I was at a, uh, w w, uh, I won’t mention the name, but one of the biggest, um, technology companies in the world is a, is a corporate client of ours. And I was working with their 150 next gen leaders. So they bring them from all over the world. They do a week with them, with a bunch of different, uh, speakers.

And, uh, we had a full day with them that week, so we had a lot of time with them. And, you know, it kept coming up that they’re, uh, supervisors or they’re that, or they’re director level and above, uh, folks would often interrupt them when they were doing their pitches. So they kept asking questions about, well, how do you, what do you do if they interrupt you?

So [00:56:00] I gave them a whole series of different, uh, solutions to that particular problem. It primarily. So that doesn’t happen in the first place. And the solutions were, were reasonable. They were certainly helpful. And, uh, they would work, but the questions kept coming up. So I said, okay, hold on, stop. We gotta stop for a second because I gave you solutions that I think are pretty reasonable solutions, but you’re still asking the question, which means either you don’t think those solutions.

Would work. Um, or you don’t think it matters. You don’t think there are any solutions. And if that’s the case, then you have a culture problem. And I may be speaking above my pay grade here, but if you can’t finish a pitch that your boss asked you to do, uh, you know. And on a regular basis, and you can’t, they interrupt you constantly, then you may have a culture problem.

Now maybe you don’t. And if you don’t, that’s okay. But I think we should discuss it. And because I had taken that sort of outsider approach, they let me in, they let me talk about it. So [00:57:00] how do you balance, you know, being, uh, knowing enough about them to be on the inside, but also, you know. Staying the outsider like you are, cause they brought you into it.

You know, to bring ideas and concepts that they don’t have internally. Uh, and find the right balance. I think that part of it is knowing what are the hot, I mean, to me it just comes down to credibility and knowing what are the hot buttons for that audience that will cause them to a lose credit lose credibility for, for you to lose credibility with that.

Yeah. Where they stopped paying attention because you’re right, they brought you in to be the outsider. They didn’t bring you in to be the expert on their thing. They want outside thinking. So that’s what the reason why they’re a contractor. You in most cases, right? But they also don’t want to feel like you’re doing the same talk for them that you could have done for 200 other people without changing it at all.

You know? Except for just thinking a different person in the beginning. Right. [00:58:00] And. You can tell. I mean, we all can tell, right? Whether we’re thinking about our own talks or just listening to other talks, like you can tell when someone’s just got this whole canned delivery where they’re doing it exactly the same way that they always do it.

And so, like, one of the ways that I use to, to, um, change that is I have a couple of different talks right. But for each talk, I have probably 12 to 15 different openings that I can use based on who the audience is and what I need to demonstrate to them. So, for example, uh, there’s one opening that I will use where the whole point of the opening story is to, uh, demonstrate that I am a people person and I am better at.

People than I am at numbers. And the reason why I use that story is when I’m in an audience of people who are also better at people than they are at numbers. Because then it’s like, Oh, he’s like me. Yeah. Like we’re both, you know, we’re both people people, right? And real estate agents for example. I mean real estate agents are people people.

Um, that’s why there are real [00:59:00] estate agents. So when you know these common elements of an audience, you can figure out what do I need to tell them or deliver to them initially so that we’re on the same team. Right. I mean it’s all about that, that warmth that you want to try and get initially. Cause then you have.

Permission to do all of these other things, right? And I know you talk about this and, and teach people this stuff all the time, right? Like you can’t just come out and be like, so who’s this? And have them raise their hand and like, you know, like you, you haven’t earned the right to do any of that stuff was an alcoholic.

I mean, you know this better than anybody. You teach people this, right? So I don’t have to tell you, but like, no, it’s important. It’s important. It’s important for everybody to hear because you know, you’re out there as a working speaker doing this, you know, every single week. And. You know what, what’s key about, um, about, you know, your approach is that all those 20 different openings, they’re all true.

It’s not like you’re going to one conference and saying, well, you know, it’s good thing. Um, you know, I’m really more of a people person than a numbers person. And then the next day you’re a different conference [01:00:00] room. You know, I’m really more of a numbers person than a people person. No, that’s not what we’re talking about.

It’s gotta be true. Cause the truth will always resonate. Uh, if it’s not true. You know, then, uh, I don’t care how flashy it is, how impressive it is, it’s probably not going to resonate. Yeah. And look, you know, there’s always things, I mean, when you have a certain amount of experience, and I’m lucky also because I worked in agencies, which means I worked in lots of different industries for lots of different customers.

So like, I can usually find an experience of like, you know, I went into do a talk at a big TV studio network, and I talked about how, well one of my first internships back when I was in Atlanta in college was at the cartoon network, right when it was starting up. And I had three people come up to me after the talk and say, you know, I started my career at the cartoon network too.

And do you remember like Johnny Bravo? And we were like launching all these shows and wasn’t that awesome? And what years were you there? You know, because people tend to stay in the same industry. Most people do. If you can find some common element, I mean, not everybody has the benefit of having [01:01:00] worked in lots of different industries, right?

But that common element like that really connects people. Yeah. And you know, the thing that connects me to you is just what a good human being you are. So, you know, on that note, we gotta wrap up and I just want to say thank you so much for doing this. I know this is going to be tremendously helpful to so many people.

And the thing that, one of the things that I love about you is. Just how, what a wonderful father and human being you are. Because when I see, you know, your pictures of you with your kids, uh, and how connected you are and what a beautiful family you have, um, and how you really are bringing people together in such a beautiful and integrated.

And, um. Connected ways. I just, I’m so happy you’re out there, you know, representing our community and doing such great work. So, thank you so much. So, uh, where can people, uh, you know, connect with you? I know, actually before that, I know you’ve got a really big, uh, project that is, uh, you know, just [01:02:00] landing, which is the new book, right, for the decades, right.

Yup. That’s right. And if this the last non obvious book you’re doing, it is the last one. Yes. Uh, and the biggest reason is because I’m taking this brand of non-obvious and making it much bigger. So we have guidebooks series. We have a podcast coming from me, which will not be an interview podcast. Uh, so it’ll be quite different, I think, from a lot of other, uh, shows.

So there’s lots of interesting things come in. So I really, and by the way, I really appreciate, um, you know. Uh, everything you just said, I mean, it’s very kind of you and likewise. I mean, we’re connected as, as friends. And I, uh, I love that because I think that in a show like this, hopefully that comes across to people that like, we’ve actually worked together and met in person and, you know, like we know each other.

We’re not just, you know, it’s just not, not a, Oh, let me interview this guy cause he’s got a book. Um, I, you know, I’ll tell you a little secret here. One of the reasons I love doing the show is because I get to [01:03:00] talk to a lot of people that I really love and care about, uh, for a long period of time when we don’t often, you know, spend an hour on the phone, uh, you know, on a regular basis.

Uh, but I always miss you. So I’m like, okay, I’m gonna, I’m going to get, you know, I’m gonna get some of my friends come out and show and we’re going to talk and I get to spend time with them. And then my audience will, will love it as well. But we are actually bringing a lot of new guests on the show, which just means more.

Research for me cause I, you know, I know I still had do a lot of research for you for what’s going on these days and you know, but I know a lot about you, so it’s a little bit easier. But with the new guests, it’s just more work. Yeah. But, uh, you know, I mean, you, you have a passion for it and you’re obviously good at it, so I think you’ll, I think you’ll be fine.

Thanks buddy. I appreciate that. You’re so kind. So, uh, so where can they reach you if they have any questions for you or just want to go to your site, um, and uh, and get on your newsletter and the whole thing. Yeah, so a Rohit bhargava.com is my main site and you can see like videos and all sorts of stuff.

If you want to get this weekly newsletter where I just [01:04:00] go through hundreds of stories and find the five most interesting, underappreciated ones of the week, you can just go to that same URL, dot com slash subscribe and if you want to find out about the book, it’s just non-obvious dot com slash megatrends and of course it’s going to be available.

Anywhere. Books are sold everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. Thank you so much, my friend. I appreciate it. Have a wonderful rest of your day and thank you for being on steal the show. Thank you. Thanks for listening to steal the show. I’m your host Michael port. We record our episodes at heroic public speaking HQ.

Thanks for listening and learning how to be a performer in your spotlight moments. Make sure to reach out to us on Instagram and Facebook at heroic public speaking and leave us a review. View on iTunes. If you like the show until next time, keep thinking big about who you are and how you see the world.

Bye for now.

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